In this episode of Community Matters, JLG Architects’ Isaac Karley speaks with Clinique Chapman and Cristian Franco Jr. about the Restoring Promise initiative, which strives to create housing units centered on dignity for young adults in prison. Clinique and Cristian discuss the push to end mass incarceration and provide insight into Restoring Promise’s process within these facilities – and why they feel it’s critical to create humane spaces and processes that provide people with the opportunity to heal from trauma and move forward with their lives.
Transcription:
00;00;00;02 – 00;01;42;00
Host: Issac Karley
Hi, my name is Isaac Karley. I’m a registered architect with JLG Architects and this is the Community Matters podcast. Today we’re sharing an interview I did with Clinique Chapman, who’s an associate director at the Vera Institute of Justice, and she was joined by her colleague Chris Frenkel, who was a training and site coordinator for MILPA Collective. So Vera and MILPA are two organizations that have partnered to build an initiative called Restoring Promise.
And that initiative focuses on creating housing units grounded in dignity for young adults in prison. We wanted to highlight this conversation for you because these two people and restoring promise as a large organization, they’re really making change in a system that’s so difficult to make change in. What we learned from listening back to Clinic and Chris in this conversation was that if you can seek out people who have the same goals as you do and make a commitment to working together to achieve those goals, you can begin to make some change happen.
By going into facilities and involving both residents and staff. They collectively work to build processes and buy in that will have lasting effects well after their work is done. In a sense, they’re helping to build community within those spaces, and as they do this work in facility after facility, they’re building a larger community that is beginning to stretch across the country and will only grow as positive results make their way to the surface.
We see them as not only doing the heart and the hard work as you’ll hear them describe it, but working very smart to. They were a joy to talk with. I hope you enjoy the conversation and gain some perspective as I know I did.
Episode five The Community Matters Podcast.
JLG architects.
00;01;42;25 – 00;02;08;01
Guest: Clinique Chapman
My name is Clinique Chapman. And I’ll say it again. I think it’s really important that you all are having these conversations and exploring. I appreciate that, you know, you all are recognizing that it’s a multidisciplinary approach to solving the issues, right? It’s not just for VR. It’s not just for milpa. It’s not just for those who are most impacted to be doing this work, but it’s really a mass incarceration.
00;02;08;01 – 00;03;26;03
Guest: Clinique Chapman
It’s everyone’s problem in this country. And so definitely appreciate the approach that you all are taking to learn more so that you can do more. I am a forensic social worker. Clinical social worker by trade. I’m an associate director at the Vienna Institute of Justice, where I work on the Restoring Promise initiative, doing prison reform work across the country.
I’m a professor at Howard University School of Social Work, where I teach up and coming graduate level, master’s level social workers, the intricacies of this field so that they can be better suited and better prepared to do the work. When they go out and I was I began my career spending about a decade at the DC Public Defender Service, where I really was able to understand and write and advocate for and understand the stories of those most impacted, to be able to advocate on their behalf, to finding least restrictive environments, simply trying to keep people out of prison and out of jail is how I started my career.
And so it’s interesting now to be on this side where I’m working on prison reform, which is very necessary as well. And I’ve also spent time working inside of jails and so in the DC area. So I’ve had, you know, my share of my share of doing this work. And it’s very necessary and just happy to be here in this conversation.
And I’ll pass over to Chris to introduce himself as well.
00;03;28;24 – 00;04;16;09
Guest: Cristian Franco Jr.
Yeah. Thank you Clinique. And my full name is Cristian Franco Jr. My friends call me Chris, and I am the training and site coordinator for an organization called MILPA. The acronym stands for Motivating Individual Leadership for Public Advancement. And I come into this work with 15 years of experience and process sector systems change, you know, targeting physical behavior, social and emotional challenges, determinants of health, if you would..
And so for me, my role with the Restoring Promise initiative is working directly with staff and residents in the facilities.
00;04;16;13 – 00;04;26;08
Host: Issac Karley
Okay. Awesome. Thank you. Can you can you all talk a little bit about, like, the partnership between VERA and MILPA and how that came about?
00;04;26;10 – 00;04;31;28
Guest: Cristian Franco Jr.
Definitely. So I can I’d love to actually ground us a little bit in sharing, you know, about restoring promise.
00;04;32;01 – 00;04;32;25
Host: Issac Karley
Let’s go. Yeah.
00;04;32;27 – 00;05;33;20
Guest: Clinique Chapman
And then I can pass it over to Chris to share more about milpa. Specifically. We are partners in this work restoring promise. In 2017, we opened up our first housing unit in Connecticut. That is the true the true unit. That’s an acronym and name that the the mentors and staff came up with their. The true unit was started.
And restoring promise is such a unique initiative and really just in a unique approach because we are two organizations, right. Working for the for a shared purpose. We are led by Vera Institute of Justice and MILPA and focusing on creating housing units that are grounded in human dignity for young adults in prison. And that is such a specific and unique, you know, community of people that we are working for and with.
00;05;33;22 – 00;06;29;07
Guest: Cristian Franco Jr.
Vera Institute of Justice, specifically, is powered by hundreds of advocates and researchers and activists all working really to transform the criminal legal system and immigration systems until they, you know, are showing that they are fair for all. That is what we all do in a daily basis. I’ll pass it over to Cris to share more about MILPA, and then I’ll kind of ground us a little bit more, I think, in, you know, what Restoring Promise is and what we do.
And MILPA is a nonprofit that is led by formerly incarcerated Chicano, indigenous, you know, leaders uplift and race equity and prison systems nationwide. MILPA was started and founded after some officer involved shootings that took place in Salinas, California, around 2015. There was back to back incidents that really, you know, caused harm to the community and really shook up the community.
00;06;29;09 – 00;10;43;02
Guest: Clinique Chapman
And so stakeholders started to rally together and say, you know, we need a space to be provided for our folks to be able to process what has happened, the impact, you know, one of the officer involved shootings happened in broad daylight right after school. Children were walking around the body, lay there for hours. I want to say it might have even been handcuffed.
And so folks were seeing this. And so, you know, as we know for too long. This has been going on. And, and our folks really, you know, have to process that and heal from that.
We really do this work in conjunction with and collaboration with those who are most impacted. And so I really see restoring promises like, you know, where the conduit to change, right. We are we are the change makers, the people really doing the hard work of shifting and transforming the culture. Inside of prisons are those who are incarcerated and those who work inside of the prisons.
And so we have partnerships within and housing units within Colorado, Connecticut, Idaho, Massachusetts. We have a there’s Restoring promise unit within a jail in Massachusetts, in North Dakota, and in South Carolina. And within all of those states, we we work collaboratively over time to really to hone in on, you know, what? What is the baseline. Right. And so that’s kind of the data.
Like we’re collecting data. We’re learning about the ad. We’re using admin data. We’re using you know who’s in solitary right. Looking at the race equity of it all. What’s who’s who. Who do we see in solitary confinement or restrictive housing. You know, various names depending on where you are in the country. Who do we see within the education and the vocational programs, like who’s being disciplined and how are they being disciplined?
And so we really are using, you know, our core values to really say, you know, hey, people in prison deserve to be treated with dignity, experience, safety, healing, support and connection to their family and loved ones. We really want people to succeed when they return home. In order to do that, you have to ensure that you know if if America is going to be relying on this system that we currently have, which is a prison system and a carceral system, then we have to ensure that the space that we’re putting people in, you know, the punishment is the sentence, the punishment is them going to prison or being detained or held in.
But the accountability, right, the transformation, the culture change, the the healing that takes place, we have to ensure that the space and the environment is conducive to that. And that’s what restoring promise works with our partners to really ensure that the spaces can be as humane as possible and people are feeling valued, and that they have purpose within these spaces while they are incarcerated.
And so we work with, you know, 18 to 25 year olds. We have the young adults are coached by what we call mentors, but really just, you know, wiser, wiser individuals who’ve been inside a prison. And really, they work side by side with the staff inside to really help people realize their full potential and purpose. They have classes, financial literacy, conflict, excuse me, mediation, and really like a healthy connection to family and community knowing that everyone is going home at some point, right?
Most people are going home at some point. And so we have to make sure we keep those ties and we use our data to really to say, you know, exploring what is the issue inside of the prisons in a way to analyze and understand so that we can then make informed solutions and develop, you know, develop along the way.
And so we have like three month increments after the units are open, six month, nine months, where we’re continuing to use data to really inform the to the technical assistance that Chris can actually talk about that a little bit as well. I can go deeper into the data if you’re interested. Wasn’t sure if your audience wants to hear lots about data, but we can.
00;10;43;03 – 00;10;44;17
Guest: Cristian Franco Jr.
So just let me know what you want to hear.
00;10;44;19 – 00;11;15;27
Host: Issac Karley
Well, I guess I’m interested. Looking at Restoring Promises website, you say disrupting status quo research methods were changing the way research is done about incarcerated people. Research in prisons should be conducted with people, not on people. So I guess, you know, you spoke to that a little bit, but where I’m what I’m thinking about a lot is like, what is the research on the back end look like?
How are you measuring success once you’re sort of established in a housing unit and established a process?
00;11;15;29 – 00;11;27;03
Guest: Clinique Chapman
Definitely. So we use prison culture surveys. And so those surveys go out to everyone in the facilities kind of to create this baseline data.
00;11;27;05 – 00;11;32;25
Host: Issac Karley
And that’s sorry to interrupt staff and and sort of residents. Right. Yes okay.
00;11;32;26 – 00;11;56;03
Guest: Clinique Chapman
Exactly. Staff. And specifically for the housing units, young people to really understand like how do you feel like safety. And so, you know, it’s funny, you know, talking to an architect, safety can feel and be viewed as something that is very much like external. But also your environment creates an emotional safety. Right. And so we really want to focus on both of those things.
00;11;56;04 – 00;13;04;06
Guest: Clinique Chapman
Right. And so how do you feel. And so collecting that data at the very beginning to understand, you know, do staff feel safe. Do staff feel valued because you understand that, you know, the more staff feel safe, the more staff feel valued. Their purpose inside of that prison, you know, is then they can do the work. People can’t really do the work when they’re functioning out of fear and functioning in this non safe space.
And so we really collect that that data through the prison culture survey. We do see RCTs which are, you know random control trials. We’ve done that in South Carolina and working on that in Idaho soon. And we also have some that are coming later in terms of like toward liberation. So understanding what happens to people when they actually leave prison.
But for the purpose of this conversation, the collaboration piece is that, yes, the prison culture. So surveys have us understanding what people are experiencing, but even the writing of the findings and recommendations, like the documents that we are then sending out to the directors of these docs, that is in collaboration with like the writing is actually done with those who are incarcerated in those.
00;13;04;07 – 00;13;05;01
Host: Issac Karley
Oh, really?
00;13;05;04 – 00;13;29;04
Guest: Clinique Chapman
Yes. So like, none of this is just restoring promise. We are literally just guiding the process to change, right? Because the sustainability really is in when we, you know, when this partnership ends, we need this to continue going forward. And so we’re providing the tools, the knowledge to know how and working with states, you know, along the way.
But they are guiding us to changing their system. And that includes those who are incarcerated.
00;13;29;06 – 00;14;17;00
Host: Issac Karley
That’s so fascinating. We’ve been talking about sort of in architecture, you have a process and you have a building. You have a product. Right? So it’s one thing that if you sort of design a building, just kind of gathering information from clients, and then you say, okay, we’re going to go away now, we’re going to go design a building, and then you bring it back and, you know, you obviously talk with them and say, what do you like about this?
You start making changes, you make design decisions. But at the end of the day, if you design a building sort of in a in a bubble without like a lot of collaboration with your client, your client’s going to get a project and you’re going to walk away and you’re going to walk away and they’re going to be all right.
Well, how do I maintain this now? And if they don’t understand the nuances of the building as well as you do, then that’s not necessarily a good thing. It’s not necessarily helpful because that thing’s going to be around for a long time. Like they need to they need to feel like they created it, maybe even more so than you do.
00;14;17;06 – 00;15;03;06
Guest: Clinique Chapman
You need to buy in of people and people. People’s genuine by in and sustainability comes from their input, their voices being heard and actually seeing solutions that included what they had to say and what they thought about. I love for Chris to actually hop in and talk about a little bit about number one, just like now that we have this data, like how do we help to like guide and course correct and what we do, like how we use the data once we’re actually in the sites and working with them when we have the housing units open.
But also, of course, I’d love for you to share how we specifically we can talk about North Dakota. Right? Chris and I help to open up the North Dakota unit, the process with our partner that we’ve worked with, architect for mass Design and like the process, how the incarcerated folks in the staff were included in that process. I think you’d really find this intriguing.
00;15;03;08 – 00;15;04;04
Host: Issac Karley
Of course.
00;15;04;11 – 00;17;44;06
Guest: Cristian Franco Jr.
I could get to the collaborative process. Right. And what’s different about this approach? But I’d like to share really quickly just to frame this as, as I mentioned, how, you know, the organization, a grassroots, you know, community based organization was founded, was was, you know, really listening to the community, right? The harm that had been caused, the impact on the people and how to best move forward.
So that same approach comes to restoring promise as we push for change, create an alternative housing units, you know, grounding the grounding the units and dignity, you know, based on helping to create a restorative culture in prisons. Right. So again, we have to come in and understand what is the harm that has been caused, who has been impacted and how do we best move forward.
Many people know and come to understand this as restorative practices. But again, this is rooted in indigenous culture and and learning and philosophy. Right? There is no hierarchy. Everyone sits in a circle. Everyone is equal and everyone’s opinion is valued. So that’s kind of how we approach this work. Clinic mentioned it a little bit as far as the process that goes into this.
What is different from your standard research on people is that this research is with the folks that are most directly impacted, that being staff and residents. You know, we’ve come to understand that oftentimes the research really shows, you know, some of the other underlying factors that that that involve staff, whether they take some of what they see inside prison home or whether they come into the prison with some of what, you know, maybe impacting them outside of that, it really, really does have an impact on, you know, the way that corrections are done.
So so we understand this in the process of working with mass design, as Clinique mentioned, it took, you know, many weeks of coming together and, you know, getting to understand what were some of the the challenges inside prison and then also some of the highlights, you know, some of the things that do work, like having a kitchen inside of a unit or having your own washroom, or what it would look like to actually have, you know, family come and see where you live at..
You know what that would mean for your family to understand that you’re in a safe place, that it’s a clean environment, and that the people that are there are actually there to help you.
00;17;44;07 – 00;17;52;01
Host: Issac Karley
Could you talk a little bit about how you get involved with these different DOCRs?
00;17;52;03 – 00;18;08;14
Guest: Clinique Chapman
Definitely. So for our sites, the current sites that we have, we used in an RFP process, which is like a request for proposals. And so kind of we put out a call, write a call, call to action to, to states across the country and say.
00;18;08;15 – 00;18;09;21
Host: Issac Karley
You put out an RFP.
00;18;09;26 – 00;18;10;12
Guest: Clinique Chapman
Yes.
00;18;10;13 – 00;18;11;12
Host: Issac Karley
So okay, okay.
00;18;11;13 – 00;21;11;17
Guest: Clinique Chapman
And so and I think that’s unique to right. Like we’re not going to and saying, hey you must do this versus they’re like, hey we recognize that. You know, we we need assistance in this area specifically. Most of them come to us like help us, right. With the young adults. They’re a unique, you know, unique group of folks that a lot of states may make many, many changes and many, many transformations, but still realize, as North Dakota actually did, that we still there’s still something very unique about young adults that we need assistance with.
And so they come to us saying, you know, hey, we’d like to apply to work with you all for the technical assistance. And so our last kind of round of applicants that were selected was Idaho, Colorado and North Dakota. Your whole your side of the country, I think. And so we’ve actually opened up North Dakota and Colorado in the last.
They both just recently celebrated one year of their their housing units being opened. And so with North Dakota specifically, it’s like a process of, you know, now that we are partners, the hard work, the the hard work really begins, right? So it’s it’s hard to acknowledge that you need assistance from, you know, someone and say, hey, let us can you help us?
But then the hard work of having really kind of, you know, these oftentimes hard and uncomfortable conversations, right? Race and culture and, and equity and how we treat people, how we view people, the names that we call people, whether it’s their first name or by inmate so-and-so. Right. And so that that work starts to go into it. And whether, you know, if the value that we see, we see, you know, budgets are often aligned with your where you see value.
And so what is your budget show like where does the investment go. And so how do we kind of redesign a unit together. And we do that over the course of about six months to a year when we work together to really design what this space will look like, feel like, but also what will be the policies and practices that, that really sustain the sustain this space.
And so we work on reviewing policies for the DOCR. Specifically, we review policies and put in policy amendments, specifically, changing the biggest changes that really come about is within the disciplinary process, like how we hold people accountable in this country in general. Right. And so specifically within prisons, it’s really important. So we we try to kind of align accountability with humanity.
Right. And so that means restorative justice. That means everyone, as Chris kind of mentioned, like everyone, there’s no hierarchy in the in the room. And so even with conflict, when conflict arises, you know, everyone has a, you know, understanding the harm, right. Understanding the harm, addressing the harm, the root of the harm and moving forward, not staying in this place.
I feel like punishment is actually where we stay in that place, right? Nothing is actually learned from punishment. And so we try to move things forward through restorative practices and restorative justice.
00;21;11;20 – 00;21;44;22
Host: Issac Karley
You talked about those hard conversations. And I’m also thinking about sort of what’s the purpose of all of this. Like what is the purpose of sending someone to a detention facility? Like what are we hoping to get out of it? Can you talk about what is what is the experience and what’s the process of having those hard conversations, and how do you build trust with sort of administration and staff?
Well, at the same time, like pushing them to sort of evolve their thinking into more humane practices?
00;21;44;24 – 00;25;29;10
Guest: Clinique Chapman
Definitely. So Chris is probably laughing in California because Clinique is I enjoy having the hard conversations I enjoy. I’m that person. I enjoy having the hard conversations. I enjoy having the, you know.
Finding the courage in myself to have those conversations and then equipping and creating safe spaces for our partners to then have the courage to engage in those conversations like no change can actually come without having those conversations. And so we build trust slowly. It takes time, right? We’re we’re an outside organization coming in saying, hey, this is what we notice about your data.
This is what we’ve been told. And the survey show and here are our recommendations. Right. And so you have to you have to build trust to be able to then bring those recommendations and actually implement them. And so we work with with directors. We were like directors and, you know, in other states are called commissioners. And so we work with the top executive leadership.
We we continue to have, you know, one on one conversations at times. We have spaces where in Chris can even talk to that. We have spaces created for line staff, because oftentimes line staff are feeling just as disempowered as those who are incarcerated, depending on the topic. And so understanding that there are various ways in which, you know, I’ll be very frank, the various ways and was white supremacy kind of rears its head in just systems.
And so understanding that it’s not just a black and white, brown, indigenous kind of thing, it’s an issue that all of us are having to sit with and understanding the harm that’s been done. And so we really we share that through training. Chris is one of our amazing training facilitators, where we have a two week training where we’re really just having dialog and understanding the history, like, how do we get here, right?
Like, we can’t really talk about solutions for us without understanding the roots of it. And so we talk about the roots. We talk about, you know, how what healing looks like in different ways of healing and traditional ways of healing. And, you know, how far has I gotten us right? And and maybe we should all, you know, reconsider doing something different.
And it brings in a great like a changemakers kind of training to say, you know, hey, this is how you, you know, these are ways in which we can heal. This is why healing is important. And so all of that work, it sounds very, it’s slow, it’s slow and steady. But the relational work is how restoring promise uniquely does the hard work.
By building relationships, building trust, creating safe spaces so that when we leave, like we fly out of North Dakota and the staff and incarcerated folks still have to work and reside in a space together. And so they are then having healing circles on their own, right. They are then confiding in staff about things they never would have thought that they could actually confide in a staff person, a correctional staff person about.
And so we see, you know, we see the change and with any change. Right. It’s it’s it’s a, you know, it may look kind of shaky, but it’s always on an incline for restoring promise units. We really do see the data shows us that, you know, even after just six months to a year, staff feel safer, a staff feel valued.
Those who are incarcerated feel like staff are hearing them and and really are concerned about them. They ask about their family members, right? They’re meeting their family now for the first time. And so we’re doing that work together. That’s kind of really the root of how restoring promise does, does and tackles the hard, the hard work, the hard, hard work.
As one of our colleagues, Eli at MILPA likes to say, the hard, hard work is what we do. We do that together.
00;25;29;13 – 00;28;06;13
Guest: Cristian Franco Jr.
Doing the hard work is important, and the hard work is very important to be able to go out and then do the hard work, right. As Clinique mentioned, the quote by my colleague Eli Gonzalez, we’ve had to, you know, start in community, you know, with, with just organizing the community and getting people involved, civically activating them. We’ve worked to facilitate programs for young people in community schools, probation schools, juvenile facilities, county and state facilities.
So the best practices that we take from the last 15 years, you know, we began to share with partners. You know, across the United States, you know, that’s kind of how we came into the partnership with with the Vera Institute of Justice. We said, hey, you know, you’ve been doing this for a while. We’re doing this locally. How would it look if we expanded upon that and found other people that are doing great work across the United States?
And and so, you know, North Dakota stood out. Obviously, North Dakota was already doing their work by taking trips to Norway and understanding, you know, other projects that were happening, leadership, you know, identified it applied and and so, yeah, you know, we came there to, to to understand some of the dynamics of the state. You know, the state of North Dakota is very unique to other regions of the country, you know.
Many people from Minneapolis, you know, Idaho, Illinois’s a lot of different places moved to North Dakota. But in North Dakota, we understand that there’s very hard working people. And so people go there for a new opportunity oftentimes that, you know, that translate into people struggling, you know, and maybe finding themselves in it or just, you know, dealing with poverty.
I spoke to it earlier. You know, there’s there’s, you know, physical challenges, behavioral challenges, and then the social and emotional of being in a new state, in a new environment, trying to, you know, make it through. And so our training is really, really important when we come in to work with the young people, young adults, residents, staff to how to offer, kind of a healing, inform, healing centered approach.
It’s really centered in the relationships, getting to understand the people, the challenges, you know, where you come from, what you had to navigate, and again, rethinking the accountability that goes into each and every one of our parts. Right? Again, the hard work we have to mirror and really look at ourselves to say, this is the trauma that I’m coming from and what I need to overcome.
00;28;06;14 – 00;30;19;15
Guest: Clinique Chapman
And, you know, also just really kind of a granular level. You know, we have regularly scheduled meetings all throughout, you know, our time working with our partners to ensure that there is always opportunity to address the challenges, because prison is still prison even with restoring promise. Right. And so even with a, you know, a transform space there, it’s still prison people are still harmed just by way of walking into prison every day.
Right. And so I think those triggers and things and the challenges and understanding that also doing something different and making change is hard. And so we have constant kind of contact to ensure that we are continuing to provide the support that folks need along. This journey is definitely a journey to transform spaces that are, you know, historically just rooted in oppression.
And so that doesn’t that doesn’t escape us just because restoring promise steps in. And so we want to make sure that we’re not naive to the fact that, you know, challenges still need to be addressed throughout. But I think, you know, even just kind of touching on the data we measure, right? We measure success through the the disciplinary, through the how people are disciplinary, disciplined, the, you know, are they now having more circles and restorative circles instead of people being, you know, people aren’t kicked up in you in a solitary confinement is no longer an option for restoring promise housing units, right?
Those types of changes and really measuring that and showing how that then correlates to safer housing units. You know, some of our estates had historically very, you know, violent incidents and violent housing units like on a daily basis and within our units, you no major violent incidents just don’t happen anymore. That’s not coincidence. Right. That’s that’s an intentional, intentional practices to do something different.
And I think that’s what all of our states have committed to. And they really are going above and beyond to ensure that, you know, their commitment to making spaces more humane for those who live there and work there, because their staff are very important piece of the puzzle is addressed.
00;30;19;06 – 00;30;55;03
Host: Issac Karley
So I appreciate that. So if I can maybe push us into the future a little bit, but also try to ground us still in what you’re doing now, you know, it seems like if I can try to put it to sink and please tell me if this is being somewhat reductive, I apologize. If so, but a lot of the work you’re doing is focused on just transforming sort of spaces and processes to try to make being in these facilities, working these facilities more humane, and providing an opportunity for people to truly deal with their trauma and move forward in their lives.
00;30;55;07 – 00;31;03;15
Guest: Clinique Chapman
Yes, we’re creating housing units that people can, you know, find spaces to heal, creating healing spaces.
00;31;03;22 – 00;31;42;26
Host: Issac Karley
I wanted to clarify that a little bit, because I’ve also heard you talk about mass incarceration and clinic. You and I talked about this a little bit. But, you know, when we when we spoke last. But I want to pull from pull from one of your values. You said promise acknowledges the systemic harms done to generations of young people of color, and commits to a restorative process in which they can realize their full potential until prisons become obsolete.
So it feels like a lot of what you’re doing is sort of the first part of that. But there’s the until prisons become obsolete, how are you seeing your work at in and pushing towards ending mass incarceration?
00;31;42;28 – 00;35;33;28
Guest: Clinique Chapman
I think that’s a great question. The future for restoring promise, I think, is something that is worth highlighting. And so, you know, we have our lessons learned with the housing units. We’ve seen the data. The data is showing, you know, just positive impact for young adults in these housing units. Right. We have you know, North Dakota has industrial sized kitchen.
They have a library, a mentor lounge, mediation rooms, washer dryer, all those different things. And so we’ve seen the impact on changing, you know, the pilot, the pilot units are what we have across the country. The next step for restoring promise starting the summer, actually moving toward part of our initiative is called design for dignity, where, you know, it’s the next chapter.
We’re based on the data, based on our experience. We’re taking restoring promise to everyone, not simply focusing on young adults. Right. And so taking this healing in this approach. So through training, through policy changes, practice changes and and I think I mentioned this earlier this like they’re focusing on the budget like the reallocation of resources where we then shift the entire system to focus on humanity for.
All right. And so it won’t just be 18 to 25 year old to be able to walk out of prisons feeling restored, feeling like they didn’t lose their humanity inside, feeling like they are more connected to mom and dad or grandma or, you know, the neighbor when they walk out feeling connected and feeling more whole. It’s not just for 18 to 25 year olds.
And so that’s what we’re starting to promise our new our next phase will be identifying. We’ll be working with one of our site partners to, you know, identify the lessons learned and then apply those more widely roll out training based on that. And like I said, really just focus on the sustainability of it all over the course of about a three year strategy.
And so restoring promise believes truly, truly believes that should always be the focus, right? Keeping people connected to their communities and their families outside of the prison walls should always be the goal. That is our goal and everything that is a conversation that we’re having during Covid. That was a very heavy part of our technical assistance work, like, okay, here we are.
We’re not opening up a housing unit at the moment. Right? We had a pause in terms of how long it would take to open up a housing, because the there was a it was a crisis happening. And so we knew that Covid, right, in order to keep people safe inside, people were dying inside. In order to keep people safe inside, you needed to let them go home.
They needed to be outside. Right. And so you had to do those spaces. And so we saw that is possible, right? We saw that with intentionality. It’s possible. And so that’s always our goal. That should be the forefront of conversations for us as restoring promise. Vera milpa for advocates for architects. Right. That should be when you walk into these rooms and these spaces, when you all start really doing this work and saying, how can we help you?
One recreate and redesign your space to be much more humane. But also how do we help you get people home? Like, what is it that we can do within our wheelhouse of expertise to get people home and to try and limit the impact? Right. It’s all about reduction of harm at this point for mass incarceration. So really, anyone that truly cares about the people, the families, and just the generations that are most impacted by mass incarceration has to first have the conversation.
And restoring promise is always doing that by connecting families, by connecting communities, and also by ourselves in these conversations. Right. We’re saying, what are the needs of the people and the needs of the people is to have this this to have transparency right, of what’s happening inside and to really slowly chip away at that wall so that folks are going home.
00;35;34;01 – 00;37;55;20
Guest: Cristian Franco Jr.
We have to create this environment that allows for the healing to take place. You know, you ask the question earlier as far as like, you know, the role or the job, right of corrections. Right? They’ve been committed, they’ve been sentenced, they’ve been taken away from their family. They’ve been removed from the community. What’s the role that goes in now?
Right. And so and so so so so we understand that hurt people hurt people. So in order, you know, yeah, just to kind of start that process, we need to create an environment first that is accessible, you know, and we talked about earlier some of the designs that go into, you know, allowing for residents to meet privately in the lounge, right, or for mentoring to happen inside the library when we’re a older resident, can pull a younger adult and take him into a library and share, you know, educational material.
You know, they have a leather making class, they have a bead making class. You know, they have activities, you know, like, you know, yoga and stuff like that, that they do collectively. And that, again, just starts to break down barriers, break down walls, allow for relationships to be, you know, built. And then that relationship really gets to the bottom line.
Why are you here? What has happened. Right. And as we start to peel away those layers and remove some of those things deposited, we like to say to deposit it in the fire, right. Anytime we’re around a fire and we’re telling stories, right. Traditionally they’re good, they’re bad, they’re scary. You laugh. And so that just brings out, you know, the individual, the individuality.
And we can say, you know what? It’s not what’s wrong with you. It’s with what’s right with you. Your resiliency. You know, how you continue even through all of this hardship, try to be better, because we know through the data that most people will return to our communities. And so what are we doing in this process? Five years, ten years, one year, 25 years where someone is incarcerated to ensure that that person has that rehabilitation that is in the name of corrections.
00;37;55;27 – 00;38;08;19
Host: Issac Karley
So we have like, you know, four minutes left. Is there is there anything that you all want to touch on or speak to that we haven’t spoken about thus far? You haven’t shared about sort of your work.
00;38;08;25 – 00;38;43;08
Guest: Cristian Franco Jr.
Yeah. You know, it takes individuals, you know, to build a culture and, and you know, I’m just one of those. Right. Clinic is just one of those. And so just, you know, a call to folks that that really want to, you know, have an impact on, on on community and build. Right. You know, I know, you know, corrections is always hiring, you know, and it’s changing.
And so, you know, just, you know, we need as many people in the movement as possible. And so in closing, just, you know, a call out to those that have done the hard work and are willing to do the hard work.
00;38;43;11 – 00;40;07;25
Guest: Clinique Chapman
I think for me, the biggest thing is, is I love for folks to walk away after hearing Chris and I talk about something that’s clearly passionate for the two of us as individuals, but just our organization is to really also understand, like our we all have responsibility, right, for where our country is and what we do moving forward and for the generations like our children’s children.
Right. And so, it’s no, it’s no secret America leads the world in incarceration rates. But as long as this country is using this form of punishment and people continue to be detained and these really oppressive just environments, we just need to ensure that the conditions inside.
Leave people with some sense of dignity. Right. And those who are impacting, that’s those who live in there and those who work in their, that’s what keeps us going. Chris and Clinique. Right. And our partners and our colleagues and all of us at Restoring Promise. It keeps us going and motivated to create change because there are people inside who don’t at the moment.
Have a seat at the table. So we want to make sure that, you know, we’re we’re moving chairs aside to create seats for them to be able to, you know, just continue to make this change and impact. And so I think restoring promise is doing that work, and we look forward to continuing to do that work. And hopefully, you know, in partnership with architects like you all to do the work inside as well.
00;40;08;01 – 00;40;14;18
Host: Issac Karley
Thank you so much for all your efforts and your passion and taking the time today.
00;40;14;21 – 00;40;27;00
Guest: Cristian Franco Jr.
Thank you. We’ve appreciated the conversation.
Yeah. Thank you. Definitely.
00;40;27;01 – 00;40;51;00
Host: Issac Karley
Episode five The Community Matters podcast JLG architects.
To learn more about Clinique and Chris and about restoring promise, please refer to the links in our show notes below and to continue the conversation, don’t forget to subscribe right and review our podcast. Please share with friends, family or colleagues because together our communities can make a difference.
