In this episode, Dr. Jeff Sim, a mental health quality improvement manager at the Illinois Department of Corrections, explains what he has learned about the connection between science and empathy in prison populations. Focusing on three major brain development milestones, Dr. Sim talks about why individuals raised in a hyper-vigilant fight-or-flight mode struggle to empathize or feel the consequences of destructive behavior. Hear Dr. Sim’s perspective on high-level neuropsychology, the impact of corrections, and the disconnect between incarceration and the real world — highlighting how strong, positive relationships can work to support mental and behavioral health.
00;00;00;03 – 00;02;00;05
Host: Jennifer Burke Jackson
Welcome to the Community Matters podcast. This is season two, episode two, A day in the life. It’s here where we lean into preventing incarceration and also exploring the science behind human behavior from somebody who knows the person we are talking with today. Transformed the way that I think about humanity, behavior, and at the end of the day, the real significance of a safe childhood.
I know I will never be the same person that I was before I heard from Doctor Sim, and that was nearly a year ago. Today I’m finally able to bring his words to you and to others as you’re on your own journey to make the world and the community better, smarter, and more resilient. Enjoy.
Doctor Sim, I just want to really thank you for your time, because the reason I wanted to interview you for this podcast is when I heard you speak about a year ago at a warden’s conference in Iowa. What you said actually transformed the way I think about people, and it was really powerful. And so I just want to I want to share that with anyone that I can, and I honestly have.
But I think its most powerful coming from coming from you. And in my mind, you connect science with empathy in some ways. So I’m just really grateful for your time today. So I know we have some questions to go through, and I think that the first one would really give us a a good understanding of how you got to where you’re at today.
So, Doctor Sim, can you just share your story and how you got involved in corrections in the first place?
00;02;00;07 – 00;03;44;21
Guest: Dr. Sim
Well, first and foremost, Jennifer, thank you so much for the invite, and I’m honored to be here. And yes, I’m very happy to share what I’ve learned and studied over the years in the field of corrections. To answer your question, I came from the other side of the world and went to Canada with the intention of studying micro microeconomics.
Long story short, I ended up obtaining my bachelor’s degree in psychology.
Then from there I went on to do my doctoral study in psychology here in the United States. Initially, I wanted to be a neuropsychologist, but I think I was so smart enough to know that I wasn’t smart enough to become a neuropsychologist. Instead, I landed on a doctoral internship program, working at a women’s multi-level prison and a maximum prison for men.
When I first walked into the prison, I was not sure what to expect, but I remember saying to myself that this is just going to be temporary. But over time, I was intrigued by the population. And here I am, 21, 22 years later, I’m still here. But before the internship, I was not interested in working in the prison population because I felt it was a tough crowd to work with.
But to my surprise, I’m enjoying every minute of this wonderful career in corrections. And of course, looking back, I would not trade in this wonderful career that I believe God has given me. And yes, I want to also take the time to thank Warden Heinrich and the Iowa medical and Classic Classification Center that invited me to speak at a conference you mentioned, and I’m glad we got connected.
00;03;44;23 – 00;04;18;18
Host: Jennifer Burke Jackson
Me too. Me too. So we’re interested today in learning about the science behind behavior. And you shared in your presentation in the warden’s conference last fall, the differences that can emerge in people with their brain development and how that connects to behavior. So I just want to take this one step at a time. And can you share with us just some basic information on parts of the brain and their roles in how humans behave?
00;04;18;20 – 00;14;40;28
Guest: Dr. Sim
Sure. I think I have to go back about 17, maybe 18 years ago, I was working in a juvenile facility providing psychological services to juvenile sex offenders and castrated juveniles with serious mental health issues. I recall a time that I was working with a young man who was making good progress, and then after that, everything fall apart. I remember telling myself, I need to study more about why people do what they do and why they are careless and emotional.
So I went back to my first love, my first interest, and that is the study of the brain.
So I would say in the course of the several years working with this population and teaching time at the university, I read a lot of research and journal articles, and I realized that the brain and the goes three major development developmental milestones. Generally, the brain develops. The brain development proceeds from the back of your brain. So think of it as the by the spinal cord.
And our brain proceeds from the back of our brain by the brainstem and move to the front, which is the frontal lobe. So the first milestone is by the brainstem, where it regulates irregular automatic autonomic functions such as sleep, rhythm, breathing, temperature regulation, digestion, and so on and so forth. But it’s the second and
And the second milestone of the brain development is within the limbic system. And this is the area of the brain most rapidly developed between the ages of 4 to 6 years old. The limbic system is also known as the emotional brain. This is where emotions and emotional memories are stored. So if you want to know where the limbic system is, if you go on the top of your ear, look on both sides, your left and right, top of your ear look.
You go one inch deep on both sides, about 11. two inches deep in both sides. You go into your brain. That’s where the limbic system is. Area that I noticed, I realized based on research, that it plays an important role. And in that limbic system, there is an almond shaped group of neurons called the amygdala.
The amygdala recites, like I said, in the limbic system area. And it plays a very important role in our survival when we feel safe. The amygdala will come us down, but when we don’t feel safe, this part of the brain, the amygdala, keeps us hypervigilant. I do believe that hyper vigilant, we are hyper vigilant in our surrounding because it ensures that we are safe.
So this is where the fight flight disposition occurs. We often hear about the fight and flight. This is where the part of the brain that prepares us to fight, to flight, or even to freeze, depending on the situation. But because the amygdala role is to regulate fear and other emotional memory response.
Studies have shown that amygdala may be related to psychopathy and careless, careless and unemotional traits. So if you think of it this way, the media is there to keep us safe. If you don’t feel safe, this part of the brain goes on hyperdrive. I think the best way to describe this is the imagine that when you are between 4 to 6 years old, when this is the time the amygdala is developing exponentially, and this is the time where healthy emotions are best developed.
When the environment is safe, secure and nurturing. This is the time where I believe that this the the media, the limbic system start to perfect their attunement to be attuned to the caregivers emotion and the people around them.
They this is where they also learn appropriate emotions and what is not appropriate emotions.
I would say that this is where social communication and understanding and interpretation of someone’s intentions are developed. So let’s let’s give an example here. I always like to use this example when I do my training. So let’s imagine that this part of the brain is being developed between 4 to 6 years old. The child’s environment goes into a tailspin.
Chaos at home where screaming, yelling, physical and verbal attacks abuse. The highlight in this home. So during this time, the middle or within the limbic system, the media is constantly on high alert because of the the chaotic environment, because the child is trying to feel safe, but because the chaotic environment, it keeps the amygdala in hypervigilance. So, for instance, if the abuser comes home every day, it could be a guardian, or it could be a caregiver that comes home every day, abuse the child.
It could be verbally abused, physical abuse, sexual abuse, the child’s amygdala through classical conditioning are being heightened or in hyper hyper vigilant when he or she hears the abuser car coming home or coming down the street. And when the garage doors open, the constant state of alertness and heightened emotion. Do stifle the development of the amygdala. So consequently, this young child between age 4 to 6, around that time, instead of the amygdala being nurtured, the amygdala ends up to be on constant hypervigilant mode.
And the stress that goes on with the individuals, I do believe stifle the development of the amygdala. Now, you see, I spend a lot of time talking about the amygdala, because I believe that this is the part of the brain that where we learn to empathize with others, and sometimes we find that individuals we I work with, they have a hard time empathizing.
And then it brought me back to an article I read in 1995. It talks about the Kluver syndrome, and I think I talk about that at a conference. The syndrome is by two French scientists at the club, and they basically asserted that the underdeveloped amygdala, the amygdala that is not developed adequately, may result in hypersexuality and loss of fear, just to name the two major behaviors that we see and the point.
And the main point I want to bring up here is this loss of fear. So these individuals who.
Have who commit crime or violent behavior, they have no fear in them. They are not fearful of the consequences. So when we work with individuals in our custody in a prison setting, you’ll find that the consequences for some of these individual doesn’t really work for them because they are not afraid of the consequences. They are not afraid of assaulting the staff or those around them, because consequences has no bearing to them.
It doesn’t. It doesn’t deter them from their destructive behavior. So so that’s the first. So that is the second wave of the part of the brain that the amygdala area is. It’s important to understand. But before I talk about the the third way, there’s two hypotheses that I like to bring up. And that’s called the fearlessness hypothesis. We suggest that within the limbic system, antisocial individuals, due to the dysfunction of the limbic system or the area, they are not afraid.
To do the to commit the crime. But the point that the, the, the fearlessness hypothesis says that they do not experience any appropriate physiological response to risky behavior. So when they commit a risky behavior, when they do something risky or stressful, it doesn’t bother them because of the way that part of the brain is developed. And then, of course, the second one is the what they call the sensation seeking hypothesis, where because of the dysfunction of the amygdala area, it creates a sense of discomfort within them.
And therefore, in order to achieve some homeostasis within themselves, this individual would engage in antisocial or destructive behavior to raise their arousal. So that’s the second phase, second wave of the development.
00;14;40;00 – 00;15;55;00
Host: Jennifer Burke Jackson
Wow. That’s a lot. And I know you’re moving in to the the third wave, but I would like to just ask before that if a child between the ages of 4 to 6 is in the situation that you described, is there in your understanding or in your belief, a way to neutralize that trauma or the abuse and allow for more brain development?
So my example would be if you take child A in exactly who they are, right. Everybody is not going to respond to all of this the same. But if you take one individual and they were to experience the status quo five days of the week versus two days of the week, is there like a real proportional development that could occur?
Or do you feel like some of these negative experiences are impossible to overcome?
Any development? Yeah, yeah.
00;15;55;00 – 00;18;11;07
Guest: Dr. Sim
Thanks for that question, Jennifer. I think.
The neat thing about the our brain is still complex. And as you well aware that we all know that every brain is different. It depends on the neuroplasticity of the brain. What that means is new neurons are being BRF on a daily basis. So if an individual between 4 to 6 years old experienced trauma and the and and if they are removed from the environment and we start to nurture them and we start to provide them a safe environment.
Yes, the brain is sophisticated enough. The brain is wonderful enough that it can learn to adapt itself to the new environment. So I do believe that because of the neuroplasticity of the brain, which that means the brain always constantly adjusts to its environment. So over time, if you provide a nurturing, caring and environment, it can help the the the limbic system to regulate self to what I have my code here to normal to normalcy, and also that there are a couple of things that one can do to try to calm the amygdala down.
So I mentioned earlier, the media is always on a hypervigilant mode when they are stressed out and then when the child don’t feel safe. There are a couple of things we can teach them at this age. Maybe to teach them to just calm themselves down by doing a lot of focusing exercise. And you probably heard, and I’m sure your audience have heard this many times, where the idea of mindfulness comes in, where they learn how to calm down the amygdala.
So this constant mindfulness activity would teach the child to, over time, regulate themselves, especially at a very young age.
00;18;11;09 – 00;18;26;26
Host: Jennifer Burke Jackson
Wonderful. Thank you for that. Now, I know you were going to go into at first. I want to make sure that you covered everything you wanted to in terms of the areas of the brain. Before I move on to the next question. Yeah.
00;18;26;28 – 00;22;22;16
Guest: Dr. Sim
Of course. Well, as I mentioned to you, when we talk about the population that I work with, this third wave of the brain development, which is the frontal lobe is is another crucial part of the brain. Obviously, behavior is a very complex organ. And I’m not saying that these are the only two parts of the brain that produces anti-social behavior.
That’s not what I’m saying. And what I want to share with your audience is that just reading out the article, that there are two parts of the brain, the limbic system, I talk about, and now I’m going to talk about the frontal lobe plays a huge role. And also in in causing the anti-social behavior, as I mentioned. And I think I fail to mention actually there are some studies out there that shows that a smaller volume, that means a smaller amygdala are three times more likely than a large, larger amygdala that exhibit aggressive violence and psychopathic behaviors or traits.
So as you can see that studies now show that individuals with smaller are three times more likely to exhibit anti-social behavior and stuff. Like instance, if my memory serves me right, individuals with borderline personality disorder, for example the amygdala, if are not mistaken, is about 8% smaller than the average individuals who do not have suffered from borderline personality disorder.
So just as just an example of how the media works. But the third way I like to talk about right now as well is the frontal lobe. And this is the critical stage of of the brain as well. And I think this is the part of the brain that we see in exponential development between ages seven and 12 years of age.
This is where this is the part of the brain, the frontal lobe, where we learn to think things critically, analytically, and how to reason and understand consequences of behavior. This is also the part of the brain that looks at reward seeking. So when we look for reward and motivation, this is the part of the brain that plays an important role, which includes attention.
But one of the things that I like to highlight also about the frontal lobe, this is where impulsivity takes place as well. So individuals with impulse problem may have frontal lobe dysfunction, where the processing of information not adequate. And this is where they interpret information they receive a little bit different from what the true intention of the person.
So it’s important that the frontal lobe is functioning well. So there’s there’s evidence in literature that there’s a relationship between frontal lobe dysfunction and aggressive tendencies. I think the evidence is strongest for an association between prefrontal damage and impulsive aggressive behavior. So when we thought about the frontal lobe, this is where I think a lot of critical thinking occurs.
And if individuals do not have a well-developed frontal lobe, it is my belief. Therefore, they are less likely to think things through about their behavior before they execute their behavior. This is where impulsivity occurs. So therefore it is important that this part of the brain develop adequately as well between ages 7 to 12 years of age.
00;22;22;18 – 00;23;11;24
Host: Jennifer Burke Jackson
So when we look at the children in our communities that are between the ages of four and 12, for instance, that and recognize that they have some critical development happening. And as members maybe not of their core families, but members of their communities, members of their schools, you know, people that engage with them. How do you see or do you see an opportunity for communities to help with this development in some direct or indirect way?
Or more specifically, do you think we can have any impact from not the core circle for these individuals?
00;23;11;26 – 00;24;48;18
Guest: Dr. Sim
Thank you for that question. I think.
The community, the community plays a very important role in the child’s development. Aside from the family.
Dynamics, right. We spent a lot of money on higher education, but I think there’s not enough money being spent on the front end, which is an early education. If we provide more opportunities for these individuals at this very young age, encouraging, encouraging them to to learn how to regulate the emotions. I think that is something the education system could potentially help these individuals who are raised or being in a home environment where there’s a lot of chaos.
So your point when you talk about education, I think it is important that in these young individuals that where they go to school or get the education, I think it will be helpful for them to go to a school environment where they can feel safe, they can feel nurturing, and I think that is something that the school environment could, could do.
And of course, activities outside in the community community also helps as well.
00;24;48;20 – 00;25;08;03
Host: Jennifer Burke Jackson
That’s that’s really helpful.
Do you believe and this is maybe connecting some of the dots that I think you’ve laid the groundwork for, but do you believe that more healthy brain development in youth would improve public safety and reduce prison populations?
00;25;08;03 – 00;28;22;10
Guest: Dr. Sim
Wow, that’s a lot of question. Well, we do know that we like I said, the brain is a complex.
Organ, right? Well, there’s some studies that shows that antisocial behavior has some genetic influence, but there are some twin studies that show that approximately about 50% of these behaviors has to do with genetic. And also the environment plays a role. So we do know that maltreatment in childhood can predict individual to commit crime. And we also know that the environment that we create for the child is very, very crucial.
And so I think we live in a society where we put a lot of emphasis on electronic devices. I think we have lost the art. I think children may have lost the art in socializing, may have lost the in communicating, having a relationship, the bonding with their loved ones, with their friends, and social interactions seems to be important because we are social being right.
So I think in many ways that the I believe the high use, the high use of electronic electronics is associated to mental health issues as well. So it is my opinion that if you can learn how to interact with children more and to provide an environment for them to relate and bond with other individuals, I think that will help out in the long run.
I do know that.
These days, gone with the days where we see children going out and play, playing outside in the yard and doing fun stuff out in the yard, and I think.
Heavily involved in electronic devices have in some ways take them out of physical activity that I do believe that these children need. I believe they need to spend more time in going out and play and being and do more physical activity. So I think that’s one of the things that I would suggest that this can improve the public safety, because for one, when you create healthy brain, I do believe you create healthy behavior, right?
Because I do believe that the brain is the behavior occurs because of the brain. If the brain is damaged or dysfunction, the result of it is poor behavior. So if you can create an environment for healthy brain, like giving them proper nutrition and keep their brain healthy, I think in the long term we it will be helpful for society.
00;28;22;11 – 00;29;27;23
Host: Jennifer Burke Jackson
So I’m going to something that you said that was super powerful to me. And I think it’s something very simple. It’s when you create healthy brains, you create healthy behaviors. And that seems very obvious, but but true. And you really highlight and leaned into healthy bodies, you know, in terms of nutrition, in terms of physical activity. I found it super interesting that one of the wardens that actually attended the conference that that we were at together had shared with me how healthy relationships, healthy, safe relationships are the most important thing, she believed to rehabilitation for women and juveniles.
And so that relationship piece is something that I’m not hearing you speak to quite as much as maybe more of the physical health. Do you have any thoughts on on those, on how you think the healthy relationships would play in? Do you agree with her?
00;29;27;25 – 00;30;56;21
Guest: Dr. Sim
Oh, definitely. I I’m, I completely agree about healthy relationship because when we interact with one another, when there’s healthy relationship between between two individual, there’s something called oxytocin. There’s a hormone that that creates in our brain. And this oxytocin actually I call it the love hormones. Right. This is where oxytocin secretes. And what happens when two individuals interact with each other is actually the brain with good kind of hormone, as opposed to corticosteroid, which is a stress hormone that eats up your brain and destroy your brain cells.
Whereas oxytocin actually helps your brain to feel safe, feel connected. And I completely agree with that statement that connecting with one another is very, very important. And that’s why I said earlier, we spend so much time this generation, the younger generation, generation spend so much time on electronic devices. That’s not interaction, that’s not relationship. Relationship is when two individual or group of individuals come together and just being with another person builds up the oxytocin in the brain.
And that’s good. That’s a good thing to have for our brain. So yeah, relationship is so, so crucial in healthy brain development. And again of course we are talking about healthy relationship. You’re not talking about destructive relationship and an environment where it’s not safe for the individual.
00;30;56;22 – 00;32;05;05
Host: Jennifer Burke Jackson
Perfect. I love how when we say something you make it. You tell the science behind that. And I guess just as an architect, I don’t readily know that. I mean, you connect these dots, but you don’t really understand the actual inter workings on a molecular level like you do. And I just think that adds so much to the decisions that we make.
So thank you for sharing that. I’d like to move gently from brain development in youth into really the community that you work with every day, people that are incarcerated right now in terms of how, if and how they can be rehabilitated. So from a community perspective, because this is a community podcast, just really wanting to get more people aware and engaged in helping others and elevating their communities.
So what is the most impactful thing that a community can do for those right now needing rehabilitation as adults? From your perspective as a clinical psychologist?
00;32;05;07 – 00;35;44;08
Guest: Dr. Sim
Well. I have to say that the prison setting is a whole different environment. It’s a whole different world. It’s like sometimes I feel like going to a prison. It’s like a different planet altogether. And I think for the community to, to understand or to.
To understand what’s going on, these individuals in who is in the prison, I call it in the prison setting. One day they’re going to come back out and be part of the community. And so many of them, who has been increasing for many years over time because of the prison setting, they do not know how to have meaningful relationship with.
Again, my code here, normal people, all the interaction in a prison setting is I’m not saying all, but most of the interaction in a prison prison setting. It’s hostile, manipulative and so on and so forth. So when they come out to the community, they do not know how to again, my code here live a normal life. And I think the community needs to understand that this is very, very difficult for them because all they know is the.
Is the criminal life. So to come back out, to try to live a normal life, what we call normal is not normal for them, because to them what normal is to manipulate others to get what they want and get their hidden needs met. So I do believe that it would be great if the community like for example, groups such as church, church groups or the communities around the surrounding community would come in and volunteer their time to help these individuals to see what normal how normal people lives.
Right. So I think one of the things that the community could do is take time to, if the prison allow, allows you to come in and volunteer their time and provide some services to them. And I think they can see that the world out there, not the prison setting, but the world out there, the community is a safe place.
They can feel safe in the community. And I think we we have to come to the realization also that.
For the community, I think we need to have we need to come to the realization that the prison setting is now a mental institution. A lot of the individuals in our custody have mental health issues, and it seems now like our prison system is like a mental institution. And many of these individuals who have mental illness and they couldn’t like I said, they’re going to come back out to the community one day, but still with their mental health issues.
So I think the it would be helpful, in my opinion, that the community understands that we are dealing with individuals who have mental illness, and we need to find ways to connect them to the community before they return to the community, because it would be a drastic change for them. Moving from incarcerated environment to environment, where they are free to roam around the streets.
00;35;44;10 – 00;37;04;02
Host: Jennifer Burke Jackson
So the what I’ve kind of deducted in terms of what you think may be misunderstandings between the community and people that are incarcerated, would be there. Their sense of normal is totally different from people that don’t experience incarceration. Sense of normal. They don’t have or give the benefit of the doubt like so. They don’t expect the best of people because, well, in their experience, people haven’t been the best.
And then also these that this is a lot of this is connected to mental health. And it’s not just their evil or a bad person and that’s why they’re in prison. Maybe it’s more physical than that. Maybe it’s actually a lot deeper rooted than that. And like you said, could even go back to their childhood in in some cases.
So would you say that that really sums up what you think, somebody who isn’t exposed to what you are every day and doesn’t see what you see every day, what they might misunderstand the most about individuals, they’re okay.
00;37;04;04 – 00;38;20;12
Guest: Dr. Sim
Yes. Jennifer. Yeah, absolutely. And I would say a lot of the individuals in our custody. Yes. I mean, there are a lot of them have psychopathic deviates. They are psychopath and sociopath, I get that. But then we must also remember that a lot of individuals have mental illness as well. And the thing is that when you put a bunch of a group of psychopaths antisocial with an individuals who have mental illness, you can just imagine how chaotic that can be for these individuals who have mental illness.
So if we are able to provide good programing, which my department is working tirelessly to provide good programing in the prison setting, I think it will be helpful for the community to understand that some of these, not all individuals that are in prison are anti-social. In fact, a lot of them have mental health issues is just that. We don’t have mental health facilities in the community to help these individuals.
And so they ended up being in the prison setting, and that’s where they get the mental health treatment in the prison setting.
00;38;20;13 – 00;39;03;26
Host: Jennifer Burke Jackson
That’s that’s very enlightening. So I’m going to shift a little bit here to the future and maybe reflect just high level on the past. So you’ve been working, you know, since you were in Canada and had your internship in this world that’s related to incarceration, even though you didn’t necessarily see yourself there. But over time, I’d like to kind of understand if you see things improving or if you see things that are going in the wrong direction.
But above all, what has changed from when you started to now?
00;39;03;29 – 00;42;14;06
Guest: Dr. Sim
Wow. One of the biggest changes I had to say over the years is that when I first joined.
The Department of Corrections, there were a lot of emphasis on solitary confinement, putting them in confinement on what we call now restrictive housing for months, years. There are some individuals who are placed in restrictive housing or solitary confinement for many, many years. Obviously, studies have shown that this is not working. One of the things I’ve seen the biggest changes over the last several years, at least in the department, is that the shift from solitary confinement, putting them in solitary confinement for many years, the shift has now been more towards getting them out of solitary confinement and providing them more programing, because I think the biggest change for me is this imagine somebody in solitary confinement
for 5 or 6 years. All these the within themselves is the walls that they see. There’s no human interaction, there’s not much going on in the individual. And then guess what? Tomorrow you are being released from prison. This individuals have been in solitary, solitary confinement for 4 or 5 years now. You put them in the community. They do not know how to live their lives.
So one of the biggest changes that I’ve seen over the years is the department has moved towards the direction of providing programing, and not only that, preparing them to return to the community to live here again. A normal life for Earth is normal but to them is not normal. So what? The biggest change for me is the emphasis on more programing, more mental health treatment, the reduce the reduction of solitary confinement.
I am so excited. There is a push right now to provide more emphasis on programing, and one of the things that I focus a lot in programing, and that’s part of the reason why I was at the conference a year ago, is I am so passionate in creating a program that specifically tailored on the amygdala and the frontal lobe.
So this is my passion right now, is to try to reconstruct, not that I can reconstruct, but to try to tap into the media and the frontal lobe and to try to get that neuroplasticity going and the neurogenesis going in these two parts of the brain. So one of my passion right now is, is programing. And I’m very, very fortunate that we have an assistant director, director of the department who encourages us to try to create programing that specifically, specifically tailored for the individual in our custody and not taking a program from the community, from the community, and bring it into the prison setting.
So I’m excited. The changes I’ve seen in seeing right now that we are creating a program specifically for our population, and that’s one of the biggest excitement I’ve seen.
00;42;14;08 – 00;42;35;24
Host: Jennifer Burke Jackson
That’s amazing. As you as you’re going through this, you know, it really seems like you’ve leaned into where you think you have the biggest impact in that programing in as one area, whether it’s programing or something else. What do you see as the the things that are in your way for where you want to go?
00;42;35;26 – 00;44;48;23
Guest: Dr. Sim
Sure. I think the biggest challenge is that having more services out there with the individuals in our custody gets released to the community. It would be wonderful to have more programing out there, a transition place for them to transition to. Again, my quote here, transitioning them to the community. Right. So that be nice to have more transitional facilities for them to.
Slowly transition to normalcy. I think that’s the biggest challenge. We need more facilities and manpower. I do believe that staffing is one of the biggest challenges right now, because it’s a very difficult population to work with, because you’re working with anti-social, and you’re also working with individuals who have severe mental health issues. And make no mistake, you and I know and that there is nothing, nothing glamorous about working in prison.
Nothing. And we all know that the prison setting is not a fun place to work with, because this is a place where.
We are being verbally abused by the individuals in our custody. We are constantly not only not only being harassed by them as well, but some of us being have assaulted. So the biggest challenge therefore for me is to have, I do believe, is having staff that are passionate enough to want to see life change. And I think that is the biggest hurdle right now.
I do believe throughout the country is defined individuals to come in to a prison setting and to work there and to help these individual to change their lives. So those are the two main things I would point out. One, I want to repeat myself here is a good transition place for them to return to the community and also to get more staff, more individuals to come into the prison setting, to be part of the staff that wants to see life change.
00;44;48;24 – 00;46;19;12
Host: Jennifer Burke Jackson
And that’s such a hard thing. I mean, it’s hard to find staff just in general, and then to find the right kind of people. That and then also this realization that, you know, that it is not that work that you feel good about at the end of every day. It’s a long battle that isn’t very rewarding. Sometimes it takes 40 years to see, you know, the change that that you work at every day.
So it’s a difficult calling and it’s one that you’re doing. And I think I’m I’m good to just wrap things up today with gratitude for you. I’m grateful that you were exposed to this world, because I can definitely see how you’re able to articulate something really complex and scientific in a way that’s digestible for the average person. I’ve felt that you’ve changed my perspective on so many things, and the way that you speak is is beautiful and impactful and clear, and I’m so grateful for the work that you’re doing.
And if there’s anything that we can ever do to support you, we’re more than happy to do it. Doctor Sims, so thank you so much for your time today and for the time that you put towards this effort and your passion every day, because we know it’s not easy.
00;46;19;15 – 00;46;28;18
Guest: Dr. Sim
Well, thank you so much, Jennifer, for the opportunity as well.
00;46;28;20 – 00;46;36;18
Host: Jennifer Burke Jackson
The Community Matters Podcast season two, episode two A day in the life by JLG architects.
